1. I would pay good money for Carry On Lezzering merchandise with suitably retro artwork featuring J&K and closely based on the original Carry On film posters.
2. Brilliant and, to me, very relatable discussion on initial discomfort around the word 'Lesbian': the word 'Gay' always felt more safe in a blandly percussive sort of way, whilst there was something a bit too moist and unsettling about the sound of 'Lesbian', conjuring images of a bear calmly eating a bees' nest...
3. Unexpected dog appearances (c.18.22) make it very challenging for any Dog Pervs in your audience to maintain concentration - please either secure the recording space against intrusion, or (preferably) have the dog on as a regular guest.
Okay, I was a 16 year old very out and loud lesbian when the L Word first aired. It was a journey in my growing up to be a very out and loud and stubborn lesbian. It was cringy, it was full of stereotypes and it was trashy, but it was a great escape into a world where a 16 year old kid from a backwards mining town in Scotland could see the acceptance that was possible. Started their audiobook last night, it’s odd to have them split a chapter to have a joint memoir, it would be like you two doing one half a chapter with no connection at all.
Love Jeanette Winterson too, can't believe she turned down your invite, would have been such an interesting conversation..thanks both for another great pod xx
Hello everyone. I just had a message from a subscriber, telling me my dog Ruby snuck in the room where I was recording, at 18.22 - as CB also notes in the comment above! I had no idea until we had finished the episode, Kathleen and I had caught up with urgent gossip, and I turned and saw the little darling in her bed next to my desk. I will make sure to add a pic of her to the show notes next week (whether Kathleen likes it or not!)
As an English bloke who has lived in the USA for 22 years I love the word Aubergine, it’s much classier than Eggplant! I also prefer Courgette to Zucchini. Although as a concession I kinda like Rutabaga over Swede!
Rutabaga. Doesn’t Big Bird mention those on Sesame Street? I always wondered what they were and how it was spelt. They sounded so exotic. Bit disappointing to discover they’re just turnips. This is what we call swedes in Ireland. I think. The big orange vegetable = turnip = what the English call swedes = rutabaga. Every day is a school day.
My view is that some people have an aversion to the word lesbian because pre-60s, most mentions of or knowledge of a lesbian insinuated that she is / was a predator. After I came out to my mum, she mentioned a lesbian who came on to her when she was a teenager - seeing it as a bit predatory. Even later, as a young lesbian in the 80s we kept our sexuality hidden in our workplaces - especially school teachers or women who had anything to do with children. I think that was the case everywhere wasn't it? And still today, lesbian does suggest sex between women as opposed to gay which just sounds light and cheerful (maybe with some dancing)!
I was interested in the discussion about the ‘l’ word.
'Lesbian' is primarily a word with utilitarian and political meanings.
I have never felt comfortable with it except in those contexts but do we need to be bound by that word?
When speaking about ourselves, why not use the words we feel most comfortable with?
And they might depend on who we are with.
Let's not succumb to the contemporary madness about identity having dogmatic names and meanings and carried around like a driving licence.
Many women loving women in the past would not have used the words 'lesbian' or 'queer'. These words did not exist then and perhaps there was no need to label relationships.
How about some real lesbian poetry though? And the ‘l’ word is nowhere to be seen.
Miriel (known as Moo to her friends) died last year at the age of 96, followed a few months later by her partner, Ruth, a great loss for all of us who knew and loved them. Before she died, Moo chose a selection of her poems to include in her last publication. It’s called “Driving to Mulberrygong”, published by Wakefield Press. Well worth purchasing! I have it and other slim volumes of Moo’s poetry on the table beside my ‘reading chair’, along with Mary Oliver’s “Dog Songs”, Margaret Atwood’s “Dearly” and a collection of Haiku by Basho. Poetry is my joy and comfort.
Miriel lived until 96? An amazing life by the sounds of it. I will buy her book later in the week. It is still available. Poetry is a constant path of discovery. I know Mary Oliver's work well and Margaret Atwood, too.
Have you read May Sarton? She was prolific but much is beautiful. I had a minor stroke 18 months ago and found her journaling about her own stroke helpful. I love some of her poetry. She was an out lesbian all her life, unusual in those times.
You might like Ursula Le Guin and Denise Levertov too, though I don’t think they were lesbian. Just incredible women. So many others too.
I confess to liking some male poets as well. Wendell Berry is one. Nature oriented, based on real presence.
Dr. T, I just purchased Miriel’s last published collection and read a little more about her life. What a remarkable life, and she has left poetry by which she will be remembered. Almost certainly, another woman, young or old, will fall in love with poetry by reading her work. At age 18, I fell in love with poetry by reading a collection of Judith Wright’s work. I still have that collection.
Really enjoyed the episode. I know someone who suffered from limerence and there is usually an element of unavailability involved hence the fantasy. It seemed very self-destructive and painful. It looked from the outside very different to a usual crush/start of a romantic relationship (btw she is heterosexual)
I am grateful to the L word as it introduced me to a whole new world. Yes there is lots that you could critique about it but sometimes it’s ok to just enjoy it for what it is and focus on the good parts. So lots to think about from this episode but the bit that’s amused me the most is Julie’s complete confusion as to why anyone would go to a national trust property for a day 🤣 I’m with Kathleen, it’s a nice way to spend a day in the countryside walking round beautiful gardens. The properties are interesting too. Thanks again ladies, always look forward to and really enjoy your podcast.
Is anyone hate-watching And Just Like That... for the Miranda dating women storyline? (I'm addicted to Maureen Callahan's The Nerve and that turned me into a part-time AJLT hate-watcher.) In S1 and 2, Miranda went out with an enby butch woman called Che who's one of those didactic standup comics like the Nanette chick. Now in S3 they're broken up and Miranda is going to lesbian bars. In Ep. 1 she has a one-night stand with a virgin nun (fact only disclosed the morning after) played by Rosie O'Donnell. Now they're pairing her up a with a British woman, a "BBC producer" (played by the Doll lady from Doll & Em). It's so bad, but Cynthia Nixon is giving it her all and playing the love and sex scenes very earnestly. I'm thinking THAT is the only non-embarrassing thing about the whole series.
Interesting and important frank discussion on the word "lesbian" I have known of a lot of women who use gay instead and ofc queer has taken over. I definitely felt intimidated by the word and uncomfortable when alot younger and sensed others discomfort around it, that and being an actual lesbian.
I loved the LWord as a teen when it came out, it was on cable which we didn't have, however, I watched it stealthly the short time before the parents of the child I babysat for were due home, hand on the remote ready to change channel! Then went all out and bought the DVD box set the first chance I got!
Years later I remember LWord gatherings held, opportune moments to bond and kissing two different women in one night and getting anothers number, it was a good time, ha.
"Genius" is a good song by Leisha Haileys band The Murmurs.
I love National Trust properties. Been to a couple of lovely ones in the North. Actually had the best thickest millionaire traybake slice at one I still think about! 😅
It's a shame about JW not wanting to go on the pod, curious as to why.
Limerence also reminds me of those in love with love.
Enjoyed, as usual; you always make me laugh. Thank you.
I've never seen "The L Word," but would for the sole purpose of watching Alexandra Hedison, a talented photographer with her father's fabulous good looks, and the good sense to marry Jodie Foster after Ellen strayed. (In my view, she traded up.)
I've been a fan of Winterson's since she was published in the British literary journal Granta. Sad to hear she's gone transtastic -- how does this happen to sane, intelligent lesbians? -- but will nonetheless take your recommendations for listening to/reading her more recent work. If Winterson has embraced gender woo, Julie is undoubtedly right to assume the queering/transing of "Oranges," which is sad, if predictable.
I couldn't watch past the first season of The L Word, the characters were so unlikable and unrelatable to this working class welsh lesbo. But perhaps it was a bit dated by the time I sat down to watch it...? The women in it were fit though.
1. I would pay good money for Carry On Lezzering merchandise with suitably retro artwork featuring J&K and closely based on the original Carry On film posters.
2. Brilliant and, to me, very relatable discussion on initial discomfort around the word 'Lesbian': the word 'Gay' always felt more safe in a blandly percussive sort of way, whilst there was something a bit too moist and unsettling about the sound of 'Lesbian', conjuring images of a bear calmly eating a bees' nest...
3. Unexpected dog appearances (c.18.22) make it very challenging for any Dog Pervs in your audience to maintain concentration - please either secure the recording space against intrusion, or (preferably) have the dog on as a regular guest.
Thanks both!
Oh, yes! The dog at 18.22! How observant of you. Yes, please, more Ruby.
0:42 good mornings, Julie at a conference
7:46 tarragon
9:18 a romcom
15:17 limerence
22:08 Jeanette Winterson
30:10 L word memoir
35:55 lesbians mean business
39:31 dilezza
Okay, I was a 16 year old very out and loud lesbian when the L Word first aired. It was a journey in my growing up to be a very out and loud and stubborn lesbian. It was cringy, it was full of stereotypes and it was trashy, but it was a great escape into a world where a 16 year old kid from a backwards mining town in Scotland could see the acceptance that was possible. Started their audiobook last night, it’s odd to have them split a chapter to have a joint memoir, it would be like you two doing one half a chapter with no connection at all.
Love Jeanette Winterson too, can't believe she turned down your invite, would have been such an interesting conversation..thanks both for another great pod xx
Hello everyone. I just had a message from a subscriber, telling me my dog Ruby snuck in the room where I was recording, at 18.22 - as CB also notes in the comment above! I had no idea until we had finished the episode, Kathleen and I had caught up with urgent gossip, and I turned and saw the little darling in her bed next to my desk. I will make sure to add a pic of her to the show notes next week (whether Kathleen likes it or not!)
As an English bloke who has lived in the USA for 22 years I love the word Aubergine, it’s much classier than Eggplant! I also prefer Courgette to Zucchini. Although as a concession I kinda like Rutabaga over Swede!
Rutabaga. Doesn’t Big Bird mention those on Sesame Street? I always wondered what they were and how it was spelt. They sounded so exotic. Bit disappointing to discover they’re just turnips. This is what we call swedes in Ireland. I think. The big orange vegetable = turnip = what the English call swedes = rutabaga. Every day is a school day.
My view is that some people have an aversion to the word lesbian because pre-60s, most mentions of or knowledge of a lesbian insinuated that she is / was a predator. After I came out to my mum, she mentioned a lesbian who came on to her when she was a teenager - seeing it as a bit predatory. Even later, as a young lesbian in the 80s we kept our sexuality hidden in our workplaces - especially school teachers or women who had anything to do with children. I think that was the case everywhere wasn't it? And still today, lesbian does suggest sex between women as opposed to gay which just sounds light and cheerful (maybe with some dancing)!
I was interested in the discussion about the ‘l’ word.
'Lesbian' is primarily a word with utilitarian and political meanings.
I have never felt comfortable with it except in those contexts but do we need to be bound by that word?
When speaking about ourselves, why not use the words we feel most comfortable with?
And they might depend on who we are with.
Let's not succumb to the contemporary madness about identity having dogmatic names and meanings and carried around like a driving licence.
Many women loving women in the past would not have used the words 'lesbian' or 'queer'. These words did not exist then and perhaps there was no need to label relationships.
How about some real lesbian poetry though? And the ‘l’ word is nowhere to be seen.
(smiling)
https://lesbrary.com/lesbian-poetry-because-it-didnt-end-with-sappho/
Thanks for sharing.
Here is one by my dear friend, the late Miriel Lenore.
The Walls of Lesbos
to build a Lesbian wall
take big rough stones
don’t cut to fit
they are themselves undressed
balance each with care
use no cement no force
large gaps remain
the strength is in the touching
and the spaces
I think I found some other work from your poet friend online in an old newsletter. It's beautiful. Poetry has always been important to me. 🍀
Miriel (known as Moo to her friends) died last year at the age of 96, followed a few months later by her partner, Ruth, a great loss for all of us who knew and loved them. Before she died, Moo chose a selection of her poems to include in her last publication. It’s called “Driving to Mulberrygong”, published by Wakefield Press. Well worth purchasing! I have it and other slim volumes of Moo’s poetry on the table beside my ‘reading chair’, along with Mary Oliver’s “Dog Songs”, Margaret Atwood’s “Dearly” and a collection of Haiku by Basho. Poetry is my joy and comfort.
Miriel lived until 96? An amazing life by the sounds of it. I will buy her book later in the week. It is still available. Poetry is a constant path of discovery. I know Mary Oliver's work well and Margaret Atwood, too.
Have you read May Sarton? She was prolific but much is beautiful. I had a minor stroke 18 months ago and found her journaling about her own stroke helpful. I love some of her poetry. She was an out lesbian all her life, unusual in those times.
You might like Ursula Le Guin and Denise Levertov too, though I don’t think they were lesbian. Just incredible women. So many others too.
I confess to liking some male poets as well. Wendell Berry is one. Nature oriented, based on real presence.
Thanks for the chat!
Dr. T, I just purchased Miriel’s last published collection and read a little more about her life. What a remarkable life, and she has left poetry by which she will be remembered. Almost certainly, another woman, young or old, will fall in love with poetry by reading her work. At age 18, I fell in love with poetry by reading a collection of Judith Wright’s work. I still have that collection.
Now that is glorious and REAL.
Thank you for sharing. I knew many women who built such walls.
Really enjoyed the episode. I know someone who suffered from limerence and there is usually an element of unavailability involved hence the fantasy. It seemed very self-destructive and painful. It looked from the outside very different to a usual crush/start of a romantic relationship (btw she is heterosexual)
I am grateful to the L word as it introduced me to a whole new world. Yes there is lots that you could critique about it but sometimes it’s ok to just enjoy it for what it is and focus on the good parts. So lots to think about from this episode but the bit that’s amused me the most is Julie’s complete confusion as to why anyone would go to a national trust property for a day 🤣 I’m with Kathleen, it’s a nice way to spend a day in the countryside walking round beautiful gardens. The properties are interesting too. Thanks again ladies, always look forward to and really enjoy your podcast.
Is anyone hate-watching And Just Like That... for the Miranda dating women storyline? (I'm addicted to Maureen Callahan's The Nerve and that turned me into a part-time AJLT hate-watcher.) In S1 and 2, Miranda went out with an enby butch woman called Che who's one of those didactic standup comics like the Nanette chick. Now in S3 they're broken up and Miranda is going to lesbian bars. In Ep. 1 she has a one-night stand with a virgin nun (fact only disclosed the morning after) played by Rosie O'Donnell. Now they're pairing her up a with a British woman, a "BBC producer" (played by the Doll lady from Doll & Em). It's so bad, but Cynthia Nixon is giving it her all and playing the love and sex scenes very earnestly. I'm thinking THAT is the only non-embarrassing thing about the whole series.
Might have to watch this now.
Chicken taragon and lemon soup hits 👌🏼
Interesting and important frank discussion on the word "lesbian" I have known of a lot of women who use gay instead and ofc queer has taken over. I definitely felt intimidated by the word and uncomfortable when alot younger and sensed others discomfort around it, that and being an actual lesbian.
I loved the LWord as a teen when it came out, it was on cable which we didn't have, however, I watched it stealthly the short time before the parents of the child I babysat for were due home, hand on the remote ready to change channel! Then went all out and bought the DVD box set the first chance I got!
Years later I remember LWord gatherings held, opportune moments to bond and kissing two different women in one night and getting anothers number, it was a good time, ha.
"Genius" is a good song by Leisha Haileys band The Murmurs.
I love National Trust properties. Been to a couple of lovely ones in the North. Actually had the best thickest millionaire traybake slice at one I still think about! 😅
It's a shame about JW not wanting to go on the pod, curious as to why.
Limerence also reminds me of those in love with love.
Did Julie just do a bit of fanfic between Bridget Jones and Love Actually??
I’m not a big tarragon woman either.
Enjoyed, as usual; you always make me laugh. Thank you.
I've never seen "The L Word," but would for the sole purpose of watching Alexandra Hedison, a talented photographer with her father's fabulous good looks, and the good sense to marry Jodie Foster after Ellen strayed. (In my view, she traded up.)
I've been a fan of Winterson's since she was published in the British literary journal Granta. Sad to hear she's gone transtastic -- how does this happen to sane, intelligent lesbians? -- but will nonetheless take your recommendations for listening to/reading her more recent work. If Winterson has embraced gender woo, Julie is undoubtedly right to assume the queering/transing of "Oranges," which is sad, if predictable.
I couldn't watch past the first season of The L Word, the characters were so unlikable and unrelatable to this working class welsh lesbo. But perhaps it was a bit dated by the time I sat down to watch it...? The women in it were fit though.