All the Sapphic traffic… Sorry Julie, but no one can deliver that line with the mixture of sarcasm, embarrassment and irritation that Kathleen does. In fact we may need a video montage for Christmas.
Lionheart, you took the words right out of my mouth and brain. I have loved watching Kathleen‘s evolution with this sapphic traffic phrase. A Christmas montage would be brilliant.
I have been meaning to comment on this. It’s so much better when we can see their faces and how they respond to each other. It makes it so much more real and up close and personal.😂❤️
Sandi Toksvig's "origin story" is apparently that she was threatened with an outing by the Daily Mail, which forced her to preempt it with an interview to the Times in 1994. Says her then wife and kids had to go into hiding for two weeks due to death threats after that interview. She's also talked about being disciplined and shunned at Girton College in Cambridge because she was in a relationship with another girl who'd stay overnight. (Bit more here https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/sandi-toksvig-i-was-shunned-at-cambridge-university-hcpp5zq85) I don't know what to make of any of it. Bloomsberries have been whoring their way around British cultural institutions all of their lives and no one shunned them as far as we know, but maybe the secrecy was key, and don't ask don't tell. Not sure what to make of it all. Britten was what we would now call "out to his friends" and his most famous opera has a protagonist with likely pedo tendencies, but I don't recall reading that he ever complained about death threats. Auden? Gertrude Stein? I'm sure the upper classes too have encountered homophobia, but they never seem to have complained about it because the money cushions the impact? Dunno.
Yes I came here to say the same. A structural understanding is a lot more useful than an individualist one. A culture or society might be invested in discouraging homosexuality or non-heterosexuality and encourage collective homophobia - perhaps taboo is a better word? Take homophobic locker room banter - it doesn't make sense to ascribe it to the individual psyche or past experiences of each boy involved. It's a structural, collective thing. An individualist understanding just leads to the kind of phobia mud-slinging you've both been victims of, of ascribing negative emotions to one's opponents, Butler style.
I am of the Boomer generation—an early adopter of the Internet. I even set up an ISP and ran the first live language training courses between Australia, New Zealand, and China. In the 80s, my favorite sound was the whine and gurgle of the modem striving to connect. I adored those early days, writing to people oceans away and, like magic, receiving an email back.
I loved the intimacy and depth of the friendships I created online. Writing gives you time to think, and the distance offers a safety to say things you might be too shy to say face-to-face. My dearest friend for many years was Claire. She came from a 500-year tradition of witchcraft, much of which had been hidden by renaming their covens as Catholic nunneries. She was an incredible librarian and historian—someone I turned to in grief, joy and curiosity, with whom I shared a passion for weird history, music, stories and shows like The X-Files and The Twilight Zone. That 20+ year friendship is one of the most precious of my life.
I never met Claire in person until the day she died. When her nephew told me she would pass in a day or two, I felt a stab of pain. I asked him to tell her I was coming. She lived in Oakland, California; I was in Sydney, Australia. I caught a plane and prayed the whole way to her hospital room that I would get to say goodbye. We met, I kissed her on the brow, and she smiled before passing a few moments later. Her brother said she was holding on just for me.
It took me a long time to process her death - I wrote a song - and given I do testing - I sang it at a pub (us professionals call that 'a pub test'.)
I have a list of names of friends I've written in a book
And every now and then I go, and take a little look
It's then that I realize, these names are not a part,
of the list, they're written in, but etched into my heart.
I know you're not aware, of any special link
But knowing you has shaped my life, more than you might think
So please don't feel my words, are but a mere routine
Your name is not forgotten, in the pages in-between.
Chorus:
For each name stands for someone, who's crossed my path sometime
and in that meeting, they've become, the reason and the rhyme.
Although it sounds romantic, for me to make this claim
I really am composed, of each remembered name
Sometimes, I admit I wonder at the words upon the screen
How just mere words can bind us, with faces still unseen
So few we trust to share with, those words we will not say
But quiet in the night we write and give our hearts away.
(Chorus)
Now you and I are far apart, and days we talk are few
but in some way, you have a part, in shaping things I do.
For we are but a total, of all the friends we've known
and in my heart, do know, you'll never be alone.
For each name stands for someone, who's crossed my path sometime
and in that meeting, they've become, the reason and the rhyme.
Although it sounds romantic, for me to make this claim
Speaking of age gap relationships, I've just watched all three Mädchen in Uniform movies, the 1931 original, the 1958 remake with Romy Schneider, and the 2006 Katherine Brooks movie (inspired by the earlier versions), Loving Annabelle. In this last version, the teacher and the 17-year-old student (played by Erin Kelly) actually have sex--quite the progression from the relatively chaste kisses in the two earlier movies. But I was thinking that another remake could probably not be made today because of the current stigma surrounding age-gap relationships, especially those in which there is also a power imbalance. FWIW, I enjoyed all three movies (though Loving Anabelle is quite cheesy--ha), and I don't think the teacher character is predatory in any of the versions. Students have been falling in love with teachers since time immemorial (happened to me twice!) but it seems now that it's difficult, if not impossible, to explore the subject in movies, plays, and novels without a whole lot of moralizing.
Thank you Kathleen for sharing your balanced and non judgemental view on big age gap relationships. It works for so many couples. I agree 'metoo' has probably played a role in making it socially unacceptable for consensual couples too. The stereotype of the older predatory lesbian doesn't help either. Yet it shouldn't be so hard to understand that people don't choose who they fall in love with. 'Love is a gypsy’s child' as Bizet put it, 'It has never, ever, known a law'. And never will it.
I’ve been at an Aye Write e vent in Glasgow where Sandi Toksvig was reading. The first question from the audience (a man of course) was “ I was just talking to my brother in law about you Sandy and we were both discussing what it is about you that is so unlikeable”. This was apropos of nothing. I totally believe she attracts a lot of hate. I spoke to her after the event. She said some of the online abuse she gets is homophobic but also misogyny. I don’t know why you’re dismissing this. She was very distressed about it. I don’t get why you would be minimising it. All you need to do to attract abuse on social media is be female and have an opinion. .
Another great pod, thank you! Just watched a movie and all the way through kept thinking I wonder what Kathleen and Julie would make of this? It's called The Foxy Merkins, a comedy about a lesbian prostitute. I'd never heard of a merkin until tonight! Just me??
A magnificent merkin (is there any other kind?) made an appearance a couple of years ago in the Scottish Parliament. Type "elaine miller protest" in a search engine and all will be revealed.
omg I now remember the Foxy Merkins! Parody of the two-male-hustlers-on-the-mean-streets-of-NYC movies like The Midnight Cowboy. I think I found it funny? I think they were hanging out in front of the Talbots (a brand associated with older WASP ladies) to find potential clients.
I’m not sure that rule works! I’m 30, so half plus 7 would be 22… to me, dating or sleeping with a 22 year old would be completely inappropriate of me!
All the Sapphic traffic… Sorry Julie, but no one can deliver that line with the mixture of sarcasm, embarrassment and irritation that Kathleen does. In fact we may need a video montage for Christmas.
Lionheart, you took the words right out of my mouth and brain. I have loved watching Kathleen‘s evolution with this sapphic traffic phrase. A Christmas montage would be brilliant.
I'm so glad we see both of you now.
Julie's face while Kathleen read aloud from the cheese article is priceless!!
I have been meaning to comment on this. It’s so much better when we can see their faces and how they respond to each other. It makes it so much more real and up close and personal.😂❤️
Sandi Toksvig's "origin story" is apparently that she was threatened with an outing by the Daily Mail, which forced her to preempt it with an interview to the Times in 1994. Says her then wife and kids had to go into hiding for two weeks due to death threats after that interview. She's also talked about being disciplined and shunned at Girton College in Cambridge because she was in a relationship with another girl who'd stay overnight. (Bit more here https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/sandi-toksvig-i-was-shunned-at-cambridge-university-hcpp5zq85) I don't know what to make of any of it. Bloomsberries have been whoring their way around British cultural institutions all of their lives and no one shunned them as far as we know, but maybe the secrecy was key, and don't ask don't tell. Not sure what to make of it all. Britten was what we would now call "out to his friends" and his most famous opera has a protagonist with likely pedo tendencies, but I don't recall reading that he ever complained about death threats. Auden? Gertrude Stein? I'm sure the upper classes too have encountered homophobia, but they never seem to have complained about it because the money cushions the impact? Dunno.
Noooo bring back the intro!! 😢
I’ve written a new introduction for the Pod … For Julie 🌻
I’m Julie Bindel
Feminist extraordinaire
Over there, is Kathleen Stock
Intelligence personified
Also has great hair!
This is the Lesbian Project Podcast
All the Sapphic traffic,
Famous lesbians at the wheel
Navigating with humour and compassion
Intellect, all spiced up with zeal!
Not sure I agree about the structural homophobia discussion, as homosexuality was pathologised and criminalised until relatively recently ?
Yes I came here to say the same. A structural understanding is a lot more useful than an individualist one. A culture or society might be invested in discouraging homosexuality or non-heterosexuality and encourage collective homophobia - perhaps taboo is a better word? Take homophobic locker room banter - it doesn't make sense to ascribe it to the individual psyche or past experiences of each boy involved. It's a structural, collective thing. An individualist understanding just leads to the kind of phobia mud-slinging you've both been victims of, of ascribing negative emotions to one's opponents, Butler style.
I am of the Boomer generation—an early adopter of the Internet. I even set up an ISP and ran the first live language training courses between Australia, New Zealand, and China. In the 80s, my favorite sound was the whine and gurgle of the modem striving to connect. I adored those early days, writing to people oceans away and, like magic, receiving an email back.
I loved the intimacy and depth of the friendships I created online. Writing gives you time to think, and the distance offers a safety to say things you might be too shy to say face-to-face. My dearest friend for many years was Claire. She came from a 500-year tradition of witchcraft, much of which had been hidden by renaming their covens as Catholic nunneries. She was an incredible librarian and historian—someone I turned to in grief, joy and curiosity, with whom I shared a passion for weird history, music, stories and shows like The X-Files and The Twilight Zone. That 20+ year friendship is one of the most precious of my life.
I never met Claire in person until the day she died. When her nephew told me she would pass in a day or two, I felt a stab of pain. I asked him to tell her I was coming. She lived in Oakland, California; I was in Sydney, Australia. I caught a plane and prayed the whole way to her hospital room that I would get to say goodbye. We met, I kissed her on the brow, and she smiled before passing a few moments later. Her brother said she was holding on just for me.
It took me a long time to process her death - I wrote a song - and given I do testing - I sang it at a pub (us professionals call that 'a pub test'.)
I have a list of names of friends I've written in a book
And every now and then I go, and take a little look
It's then that I realize, these names are not a part,
of the list, they're written in, but etched into my heart.
I know you're not aware, of any special link
But knowing you has shaped my life, more than you might think
So please don't feel my words, are but a mere routine
Your name is not forgotten, in the pages in-between.
Chorus:
For each name stands for someone, who's crossed my path sometime
and in that meeting, they've become, the reason and the rhyme.
Although it sounds romantic, for me to make this claim
I really am composed, of each remembered name
Sometimes, I admit I wonder at the words upon the screen
How just mere words can bind us, with faces still unseen
So few we trust to share with, those words we will not say
But quiet in the night we write and give our hearts away.
(Chorus)
Now you and I are far apart, and days we talk are few
but in some way, you have a part, in shaping things I do.
For we are but a total, of all the friends we've known
and in my heart, do know, you'll never be alone.
For each name stands for someone, who's crossed my path sometime
and in that meeting, they've become, the reason and the rhyme.
Although it sounds romantic, for me to make this claim
I really am composed, of each remembered name
https://soundcloud.com/kat-karena/storyfriends?utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing
Beautiful, thank you for sharing!
Actually I quite like Julie’s all the sapphic traffic… think it would be fun to keep switching it up between the two of you.
Speaking of age gap relationships, I've just watched all three Mädchen in Uniform movies, the 1931 original, the 1958 remake with Romy Schneider, and the 2006 Katherine Brooks movie (inspired by the earlier versions), Loving Annabelle. In this last version, the teacher and the 17-year-old student (played by Erin Kelly) actually have sex--quite the progression from the relatively chaste kisses in the two earlier movies. But I was thinking that another remake could probably not be made today because of the current stigma surrounding age-gap relationships, especially those in which there is also a power imbalance. FWIW, I enjoyed all three movies (though Loving Anabelle is quite cheesy--ha), and I don't think the teacher character is predatory in any of the versions. Students have been falling in love with teachers since time immemorial (happened to me twice!) but it seems now that it's difficult, if not impossible, to explore the subject in movies, plays, and novels without a whole lot of moralizing.
Thank you Kathleen for sharing your balanced and non judgemental view on big age gap relationships. It works for so many couples. I agree 'metoo' has probably played a role in making it socially unacceptable for consensual couples too. The stereotype of the older predatory lesbian doesn't help either. Yet it shouldn't be so hard to understand that people don't choose who they fall in love with. 'Love is a gypsy’s child' as Bizet put it, 'It has never, ever, known a law'. And never will it.
I’ve been at an Aye Write e vent in Glasgow where Sandi Toksvig was reading. The first question from the audience (a man of course) was “ I was just talking to my brother in law about you Sandy and we were both discussing what it is about you that is so unlikeable”. This was apropos of nothing. I totally believe she attracts a lot of hate. I spoke to her after the event. She said some of the online abuse she gets is homophobic but also misogyny. I don’t know why you’re dismissing this. She was very distressed about it. I don’t get why you would be minimising it. All you need to do to attract abuse on social media is be female and have an opinion. .
Another great pod, thank you! Just watched a movie and all the way through kept thinking I wonder what Kathleen and Julie would make of this? It's called The Foxy Merkins, a comedy about a lesbian prostitute. I'd never heard of a merkin until tonight! Just me??
A magnificent merkin (is there any other kind?) made an appearance a couple of years ago in the Scottish Parliament. Type "elaine miller protest" in a search engine and all will be revealed.
Just googled Elaine Miller..aka gusset grippers!..how have I missed all this? 🤣
I now know about both Elaine and Foxy thanks to you two!
omg I now remember the Foxy Merkins! Parody of the two-male-hustlers-on-the-mean-streets-of-NYC movies like The Midnight Cowboy. I think I found it funny? I think they were hanging out in front of the Talbots (a brand associated with older WASP ladies) to find potential clients.
That's the one! Made me laugh out loud a few times but the film lost it towards the end..
More maths!
Age gap sleaze rule: half plus 7.
So, 34/2+7 = 24
Makes Julie's older fling slightly sleazy
I’m not sure that rule works! I’m 30, so half plus 7 would be 22… to me, dating or sleeping with a 22 year old would be completely inappropriate of me!
Sleaze rule according to ?
Mmm more lesbian psychology please ,and Free CHEESE SPEECH!….
Where and how do I pay to renew my membership?
Your membership should renew automatically (you should get an email notification), unless you cancel.
Thank you
Listening from West Yorkshire …. Ha ha ha!
I agree with Julie!! It’s not okay for a 34 year old to date a 20 year old. Just because it’s legal doesn’t mean it’s moral!