38 Comments

That article by Brown and Sinclair - worse than appalling. Sloppy in the extreme. It’s written in the ‘I’ voice but it’s co-authored. What’s that about? If this is what passes as scholarship now I am glad I left academia a decade ago. This is gratuitous bashing of Dr Stock by two academics who are feeling really pissed off that because of the academy’s hounding of her, she has become a household name and is en route to becoming a national treasure. What weakness and lack of integrity! I can feel a Substack post coming on……

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PS It was worth the price of the subscription to get that off my chest.

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Nurse here who, since age of 17 has been bisexual, but going forward, can't see a future that features men.

I'm 44 now and can only speak from my own experience, but in terms of worse health outcomes for bisexual people, I think it's the pervasive uncertainty regarding your sexuality. Not being sure where you fit in life and the frequent questioning if your straight or lesbian, as the sitting on the fence never felt right for me. Never being fully in either camp so to speak can feel isolating. I've definitely struggled with poor mental health because of it. And nursing as a profession will definitely do you in!

Love your podcast and thanks for being the voices of sanity amongst the madness.

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Interesting observations, Jo, and they make sense. Not having a tribe is dislocating and isolating emotionally. I've come to understand that gender ideology is so upsetting to me in part because it fractures and co-opts my tribe, i.e. lesbians (and to a lesser extent, gay men).

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That rings very true for me. I had similar feelings about being cut off from my tribe- In my case it was Extinction Rebellion, who talk about following the science but are completely captured by gender magical thinking.

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A former partner and very dear friend was in the Australian navy in the '60s so I was touched by your discussion of the prejudice faced by serving lesbians and gay men in that era. This book might interest Australian readers and you may be surprised at some of the names. The stories are beautiful, https://unsw.press/books/serving-in-silence/

A relevant story - my former partner was a Navy radio operator in the '60s and my father was an RAAF radio operator in WWII. My father was not nice when I came out as a lesbian to my parents back in the late '60s but when he met my ex-Navy partner, all that changed. They yarned all night,and his attitude changed as much as was possible for a man from his background. I was so lucky.

I love these podcasts but today I felt a little sad because both of you cop a lot of grossly unjust criticism and nastiness for being public lesbians critical of the trans nonsense. I am so grateful that you do this work. These days I feel a little angry sometimes that we have to face the trans madness after fighting so hard for acceptance decades ago. It is good to come here for sisterhood and a laugh. Ever onward!

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I can't access the full JAMA article about mortality but found a discussion of limitations of the data analysis at: https://statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu/2024/04/30/disparities-in-mortality-by-sexual-orientation-in-a-large-prospective-jama-paper/

There seem to be some issues that make their interpretation of the data presented unreliable and more analysis is needed. When you have complex panel data like this there are always a number of ways you can analyse it and what factors to control for, which means lots of statistical decisions the researchers must make at various points of categorising and analysing the data (forking paths), choosing one path might lead to a different result to another. In particular, other health-related factors like smoking were not properly controlled for in the analysis. Anyway, no need for LGB boomer nurses to worry just yet...

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Thanks for sharing the link. As the article concludes, the number of deaths (n) is 81. It seems like interpretation could have varied greatly.

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Regarding those in the military who lost their jobs as a result of being lesbian or gay: they may have been pardoned, but the scandal is that after years of service, they were denied their pension. Their pension was stolen from them. They are still fighting this.

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I'm not sure why being vegan is deserving of such derision. Care and concern for the well being and rights of other sentient creatures seems a natural part of my lesbian being.

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It’s not being vegan, per se, that is worthy of derision, it’s the sanctimony and pretentiousness that some, not all, vegans project that inevitably causes mirth. Veganism is seen as the neighbour of snark-worthy activities such as alternative therapies (goat yoga springs to mind). I’m sorry, but it’s hard not to laugh.

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I respectfully disagree - while I think you are right in saying that vegans are portrayed this way, I do think that most of the backlash is coming from either naive or malicious misinformation, and the fact that most people do know deep down in their hearts that what we are doing to animals is absolutely horrible and unjustifiable, it’s much easier to dismiss it as woke nonsense (even though it couldn’t be further from the truth, it’s a very ethically and scientifically sound choice).

That being said, I can disagree with Kath and Julie (or you, or anyone) about how they see veganism and completely agree about feminism :)

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Can you be a feminist and not be vegan? Personally, I don't think so. Maybe though, if you decide the rights of female animals don't equate to that of human females?

I often think Kath and Julie who I think are brilliant, would scoff at me with my short (non-blue!) fringe, and vegan beliefs, but here we all are, united in the cause for women's rights. I often laugh in unity with their descriptions of some vegans-and agree with their observations. Some are insufferable!

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Well, once again, my queer joy has been mobilized, thanks to Kathleen and Julie.

I remain wholly confused by these academic articles, which I take as a sign of sanity. Also, the conflation of material reality -- being a woman sexually attracted to other women -- with inner identity, being "nonbinary." What does "nonbinary" actually mean? If it means not relating to gender stereotypes, well, that's most of us. If it means conspicuously performing androgyny and/or trying to direct others' use of pronouns to gratify one's current story of oneself, that -- thankfully -- is few of us. Just insufferably self-important.

Still, laughed a lot, as always. By now, you're hopefully home safe and sound from these crazy United States, Kathleen, and Julie, you have been reunited with Ruby, who I hope did not come back from camp identifying as Reuben and humping your leg.

P.S. Love that London has a memorial to animals killed in the world wars.

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Kathleen’s American accent was, like, delightful.

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This is dedicated to Julie: I had the good fortune to get a survey link from the Guardian. To the Q “What gender are you” I replied, under other, “I am an adult human female. I do not have a gender.” When asked how the Guardian could improve, I wrote:

“I long really appreciated the Guardian, and the Observer continues to have good pieces. I have become very frustrated, though, by the extremely biased reporting on sex and gender. Most pointedly, Owen Jones is a hectoring bully who does not deserve a home at the Guardian, and it is a travesty that Hadley Freeman, Julie Bindel, and Suzanne Moore felt they had to leave. I strongly encourage the Guardian to address this viewpoint skew, but until then, no, I can’t recommend the Guardian to anyone and rarely read an article in it.”

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Sorry if this is unorthodox, but I’m commenting on Dr. Stock’s UnHerd piece about Safetyism. Generally in complete agreement—there is certainly hyperbole on both sides and the real tragedy isn’t in Morningside Heights but in Gaza. I do want to point out, however, that suggesting the Jews inside the encampments are equally valid proponents of the Jewish point of view is, I think, analogous to saying Judith Butler’s is an equally valid women’s position on the women and transgender issue. Butler is in fact a woman and a Jew, but her positions on both strike me as equally indefensible. Can we not point out the uncanny overlap between the people who hold these positions and their unconcern with the free speech rights of TERFs and Zionists? That they happily employ their heckler’s veto to silence their opponents? I’m with Dr. Stock on the absolute necessity for allowing silly positions the protections of free speech, but we shouldn’t let the the fact that there are Jews who hold these views prevent us from challenging them as antisemitic. Really appreciate Julie Bindel’s reprint of Screams Without Words. I also deplore Netanyahu.

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I entirely agree that veganism is an ethically sound choice and don’t dismiss it all. As an animal lover who cares for two gorgeous and very cheeky dogs, I wish I had the commitment and moral fibre to become vegan. That said, I can’t control finding certain lifestyle adjacent activities amusing.

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yeah look, it’s not like we don’t have a sense of humor, for example I find the peta episode in south park hilarious :D But to the joke about young ppl put poison (hormones) in their body but not meat - it just didn’t land for me, cause veganism is an ethical choice not a health based one (although I do think a lot of ppl do it for their health or the environment, and even if they are less likely to stick with it, I’m happy that they are doing it). I’m Eastern European, I smoke like a chimney and drink like a miner but I haven’t had animal products in 7 yrs :D ANYWAYS, I think it’s like feminism in a way that you hear the same counterarguements all the time, and it just gets a bit boring and tired after a while for us I suppose.

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Not all vegans hate you ladies! Here am I representing the albeit small but enthusiastic fanbase of the Lesiban Project! <3

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"If something looks and feels a lot like hate speech, then it probably is, at least in the ordinary sense. So, even if something is lawful, that doesn’t make it right to say it."

That is a very stupid conclusion. In what sense is something simultaneously criminal in the ordinary sense but lawful (presumably also in the ordinary sense)? If it's inside a box, maybe.

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Truly, I feel bad now as I can imagine the eye rolling does becomes tiresome. I shall have a vape and a vodka and tonic this evening to honour our shared sins!

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cheers 🍸🍸

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Delightful! Thanks!

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LHA lesbian herstory archives in Brooklyn.

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