When I was 22 more than 50 years ago, someone referred me to a psychiatrist because I was a newly realised lesbian! I was fortunate that the psychiatrist (whom I discovered later to be homosexual) soon realised that I didn't need treatment but contact with others, a sense of belonging. Lesbians were hidden in the Melbourne of those days.
He told me about the only lesbian bar in town which used to run just one night a week. I was thrilled but terrified too. Another story, another time.
He also told me of the Australian opera singer, Joan Hammond, who was known in some circles to be lesbian. Her long term partner was Lolita Marriott. That was such exciting news and I became an almost immediate fan of Joan and opera. You can find Joan via Google and the Australian Dictionary of Biography. I still have those early records. Joan was a champion golfer and sailor too. I never met her, but simply to know about her brought hope.
Sometimes life and fate bring serendipity and I was lucky with that psychiatrist. Your podcast today reminded me of that. 💖
So pleased with this podcast because it led me down memory lane again. There is so much more material available now about loved women from the past. Joan Hammond was an extraordinary woman who happened to be a lesbian. We need these role models even more now.
Love that I heard about the Cubbyhole incident through a UK podcast; that's globalization, right? I'm in furious agreement with Julie on the sanctity of lesbian bar. Here in NY there's a lot of anger and misogyny is getting bolder; as the patriarchy loses its grip male vulnerability plays out in increasingly sophisticated micro-aggressions. American women need to stand up for themselves more. And just on the topic of NY, Richard Dawkins announced on his Substack recently that you, Kathleen, will be joining him at a talk he's giving here in May (?). Can you share a link?
There's really no place for men in lesbian bars, however my two sisters liked going to our local gay wine bar because they were surrounded by gay men who didn't bother them, they felt safe, the regulars were kind and welcoming, my sisters really liked to have a nice quiet evening in good company without being creeped, perved and hit on.
I do have a question relating to the claims made in this week's podcast that Lesbians are poorer than straight white men.
I can remember back in the early 2000s that there was much interest in the market place regarding the 'pink pound'. It was also recognised that many Lesbians were DINKIs (double income no kids) Making them more than viable in the market place. Many successful Lesbians and feminists have broken through the glass ceiling to become high earners. So this financially poorer lesbians claim seems a little disingenuous.
The ladies were right back on form this week. With a great guest and wonderful back and forth, sharp intelligent debate. The pace was perfect and the topics were very informative. Thank you.
Just last night, went to a lesbian event at a large club here in Palm Springs, California. The event started at 8pm, had over 5 women DJ's, and attracted maybe 20 lesbians, that separated into two groups: 20 somethings that appeared to clump together while standing on the dance floor looking at their phones, and 50-70 year olds, that stood aside and sat at tables, unhappy with the house music, a lower percentage looking at their phones. There was no cover charge.
At all times, lesbians were outnumbered and as the night wore on, even more so. All the lesbians left by 9:30pm. Many had one drink, or two. Some drank water. I can't see how a lesbian-only bar could make a profit. The best we an hope for is maybe a "lesbian table" within a larger gay bar, so we could at least sit near our sisters and get some socialization, while the gay men (and hetero folks) spend the money to keep the bar going. :(
And like Julie B, I was going to gay clubs from 1979 onwards, and do recall lesbians filling large clubs easily, different clubs on different nights, and actual lesbian local bars as well. I see no evidence that this is possible again. I am sorry to have to disagree with Julie B - I think it may be a relic that we must simply remember with fondness.
Well, that was an interesting trip around the world! I enjoyed listening to you. The first time I entered a lesbian bar in Amsterdam, a fight broke out between two women (over a third one who was also present) and it was the meanest, hair-grabbing affair I ever saw. Of course I returned the next week (it was women-only once a week) but things got rather dull after that.
When worlds collide... So Lydia is one of the "white shirts"! I've been to Glyndebourne for the Giulio Cesare revival with Sarah Connolly and also followed Vesselina Kasarova around for a bit. I don't get von Otter though. I don't find her androgynous or masculine at all but more of a cold Scandinavian upperclass matron - chic I suppose but I don't see the lesbian appeal. I also prefer richer, deeper, more contralto-ish mezzo voices. Did you hear Ann Hallenberg?
Otter is a bit older now (for an opera singer) and mostly does recitals and 'character' roles like Marcellina or the lesbian in Berg's Lulu. (She has a very anti-glam instagram, that is still her shtick... sneakers, hoodies, sweat pants.) Don't know if you know, her husband, a theatre director, took his own life after he was shamed during the Swedish #MeToo wave a few years back. Grim.
Yes it's grim. Swedish "feminists" are extremely callous about these metoo witch hunts and their effects... Had a quick look at von Otter's insta and wow, you couldn't signal "upperclass lady" harder if you tried.. 😁
"The Cubbyhole" exists in NYC as well, once upon a time it was a Lesbian bar, now its dubbed as "a friendly neighborhood bar." Lesbians do need their own single-sex spaces but are financially untenable, but I sure wish we had them in the US.
Thank you for the lovely episode and the wonderful work you are doing! I appreciate that you took on the topic of homosexuality in the Balkans and would like two make to corrections:
-Bosnia has had an annual pride march since 2019
-there is no legal recognition whatsoever available to gay couples in Serbia.
When I was 22 more than 50 years ago, someone referred me to a psychiatrist because I was a newly realised lesbian! I was fortunate that the psychiatrist (whom I discovered later to be homosexual) soon realised that I didn't need treatment but contact with others, a sense of belonging. Lesbians were hidden in the Melbourne of those days.
He told me about the only lesbian bar in town which used to run just one night a week. I was thrilled but terrified too. Another story, another time.
He also told me of the Australian opera singer, Joan Hammond, who was known in some circles to be lesbian. Her long term partner was Lolita Marriott. That was such exciting news and I became an almost immediate fan of Joan and opera. You can find Joan via Google and the Australian Dictionary of Biography. I still have those early records. Joan was a champion golfer and sailor too. I never met her, but simply to know about her brought hope.
Sometimes life and fate bring serendipity and I was lucky with that psychiatrist. Your podcast today reminded me of that. 💖
So pleased with this podcast because it led me down memory lane again. There is so much more material available now about loved women from the past. Joan Hammond was an extraordinary woman who happened to be a lesbian. We need these role models even more now.
https://www.nfsa.gov.au/collection/curated/australian-biography-dame-joan-hammond
PS. 🙏 for another great yarn. Lydia was a great guest; smart, funny and thoughtful.
Yes! Lydia was great.
Love that I heard about the Cubbyhole incident through a UK podcast; that's globalization, right? I'm in furious agreement with Julie on the sanctity of lesbian bar. Here in NY there's a lot of anger and misogyny is getting bolder; as the patriarchy loses its grip male vulnerability plays out in increasingly sophisticated micro-aggressions. American women need to stand up for themselves more. And just on the topic of NY, Richard Dawkins announced on his Substack recently that you, Kathleen, will be joining him at a talk he's giving here in May (?). Can you share a link?
There's really no place for men in lesbian bars, however my two sisters liked going to our local gay wine bar because they were surrounded by gay men who didn't bother them, they felt safe, the regulars were kind and welcoming, my sisters really liked to have a nice quiet evening in good company without being creeped, perved and hit on.
I do have a question relating to the claims made in this week's podcast that Lesbians are poorer than straight white men.
I can remember back in the early 2000s that there was much interest in the market place regarding the 'pink pound'. It was also recognised that many Lesbians were DINKIs (double income no kids) Making them more than viable in the market place. Many successful Lesbians and feminists have broken through the glass ceiling to become high earners. So this financially poorer lesbians claim seems a little disingenuous.
The ladies were right back on form this week. With a great guest and wonderful back and forth, sharp intelligent debate. The pace was perfect and the topics were very informative. Thank you.
Just last night, went to a lesbian event at a large club here in Palm Springs, California. The event started at 8pm, had over 5 women DJ's, and attracted maybe 20 lesbians, that separated into two groups: 20 somethings that appeared to clump together while standing on the dance floor looking at their phones, and 50-70 year olds, that stood aside and sat at tables, unhappy with the house music, a lower percentage looking at their phones. There was no cover charge.
At all times, lesbians were outnumbered and as the night wore on, even more so. All the lesbians left by 9:30pm. Many had one drink, or two. Some drank water. I can't see how a lesbian-only bar could make a profit. The best we an hope for is maybe a "lesbian table" within a larger gay bar, so we could at least sit near our sisters and get some socialization, while the gay men (and hetero folks) spend the money to keep the bar going. :(
And like Julie B, I was going to gay clubs from 1979 onwards, and do recall lesbians filling large clubs easily, different clubs on different nights, and actual lesbian local bars as well. I see no evidence that this is possible again. I am sorry to have to disagree with Julie B - I think it may be a relic that we must simply remember with fondness.
Well, that was an interesting trip around the world! I enjoyed listening to you. The first time I entered a lesbian bar in Amsterdam, a fight broke out between two women (over a third one who was also present) and it was the meanest, hair-grabbing affair I ever saw. Of course I returned the next week (it was women-only once a week) but things got rather dull after that.
When worlds collide... So Lydia is one of the "white shirts"! I've been to Glyndebourne for the Giulio Cesare revival with Sarah Connolly and also followed Vesselina Kasarova around for a bit. I don't get von Otter though. I don't find her androgynous or masculine at all but more of a cold Scandinavian upperclass matron - chic I suppose but I don't see the lesbian appeal. I also prefer richer, deeper, more contralto-ish mezzo voices. Did you hear Ann Hallenberg?
Otter is a bit older now (for an opera singer) and mostly does recitals and 'character' roles like Marcellina or the lesbian in Berg's Lulu. (She has a very anti-glam instagram, that is still her shtick... sneakers, hoodies, sweat pants.) Don't know if you know, her husband, a theatre director, took his own life after he was shamed during the Swedish #MeToo wave a few years back. Grim.
Yes it's grim. Swedish "feminists" are extremely callous about these metoo witch hunts and their effects... Had a quick look at von Otter's insta and wow, you couldn't signal "upperclass lady" harder if you tried.. 😁
(Though looking at the Carmen clip above I can get "masculine" in the sense of "unfeminine" and thoroughly unsuited for a voluptuous role 🫣)
"The Cubbyhole" exists in NYC as well, once upon a time it was a Lesbian bar, now its dubbed as "a friendly neighborhood bar." Lesbians do need their own single-sex spaces but are financially untenable, but I sure wish we had them in the US.
Great episode as always - thank you, Lezzers!
Lezzer on!
Thank you for the lovely episode and the wonderful work you are doing! I appreciate that you took on the topic of homosexuality in the Balkans and would like two make to corrections:
-Bosnia has had an annual pride march since 2019
-there is no legal recognition whatsoever available to gay couples in Serbia.
Greetings and looking forward to more!