Mad love 4 the Lesbian Project Podcast but correction: Lesbians are not overrepresented in sport b/c of high testosterone, Kathleen. Having written about women in sports since 1980, I can assure you it's cultural. Historically, straight women have avoided "masculine" sports & "too big" muscles due to male censure. Lesbians, less in need of male approval, have been and still are freer in this way.
Now that sports have become more acceptable for girls and women, more straight women and millions of girls play without controversy.
So now there's a smaller percentage of lesbians than, say in the days of the All-American Girls Pro Baseball League (1940s), which required young women to travel around the country (and only accepted unmarried players), and even in the days of the first women's pro basketball league: WBL, 1979-82, which I played in.
In both of those leagues, BTW, they sent players to charm school to appeal to sponsors, highlight or create a feminine appearance, and disguise the fact that many of us were gay. (I boycotted and got traded.)
Paradoxically, it might seem like there are even more lesbians now - but only because many WNBA players and more college softball players, rugby players are out. It still takes a certain comfort with "gender nonconformity" to play the most aggressive sports, like those three, but it's not about testosterone, it's about willingness to buck social conventions.
Hope you don't mind my going on a bit: Also, I think you said something about lesbians do not join sports teams looking for other women. Actually, we do. In the States at least, recreational softball and other sports have notoriously provided healthy, athletic, and social experiences for lesbians, where we can expect to discover and socialize with lesbians (and straight women who feel comfortable with lots of lesbians) in a non-bar atmosphere.
You remind me of my matchmaker friend who, in the late ‘70s, in an effort to connect me with a girlfriend, invited me to come to the all-lesbian North Fork-South Fork softball games. It was soon discovered that I was terrible at softball, but nonetheless, it was definitely an opening into a whole new world. In the end, better suited to my limited talents, was the “sport” of playing poker. One night, a girl stayed over—she never left, and we celebrate our 45th anniversary of that night tomorrow.
“Historically, straight women have avoided "masculine" sports & "too big" muscles due to male censure.” 💯💯💯 and Title IX made such a big difference in how women saw and felt about their bodies. I was a young woman pre-title IX, just coming out, so I remember that pressure very well. I marvel now at how well-toned so many young women are, whether straight or lesbian, and proud of it—and of course am dismayed at the ongoing threat to all that progress for women.
Heck yes re: Title IX and threats to it. BTW I write about the need for all-female sports 🏀 - and other feminist & aging-related issues, including at least one lesbian love story - in Stronger Women here on Substack.
Glad comments are still part of the pod. I love them 🤗 They make me part of a bigger community.
Re coming out, this may be different for everyone. I have a good friend in her '70s who in some quiet way tells everyone she is lesbian whereas I have never felt the need to do that.
The current assault by trans ideology on lesbian identity and freedom has led me to come out more often, however.
Julie and Kathleen! We just had the Lesbian Action Group conference here in Australia, and it was spectacular! Thanks for your support and encouragement, it means the world! I flew down from Sydney for the conference and gave a talk about my experiences growing up with triple lesbophobia (religious; porn culture; gender identity ideology). There were about ten of us young ones and then 70 retirement age women… And it was so special to meet older sisters and learn from them! It is so isolating being a sex-realist lesbian so a lot of us under 30s were crying because we were so moved to meet our sisters. 👯♀️
Anyway wanted to say thanks for your little message to the conference goers, everyone was thrilled and honoured to see it!
Aurore, thanks for the report on the conference! I was wondering how it went. The numbers are impressive. More younger women will come to the movement. LAG is doing all the right things.
I have mobility issues (both knees needing redemption) and had surgery recently so could not contemplate attending. More surgery planned soon. It will be great to walk safely again!
I read that the NSW Labor government is likely to pass the proposed gender self ID legislation before Christmas. They will achieve this after a compromise with the Churches by abandoning protections for gay teachers in private schools. I wrote to the Melbourne 'Age' about the wider impacts of the gender self ID legislation but the letter was not published.
If you haven't commented on it before, would you say what you thought of the 2022 film Blue Jean? It presents itself as social realism. I'm watching it on Kanopy (a library based steaming service), and to me it seems a plausible depiction of the era. But I'm not from the time and place, so I'm not really sure. I'd be interested. Thanks.
I love these podcasts. Thank you both. The obsession with sports on the news every night etc really annoys me. However, in the capital city of Aotearoa (NZ) our lesbian softball teams - the Amazons - which started in mid/late 70s, was the best place for mixing lesbians together. There were members who were mothers who brought their kids along to the game, pissheads, vegans, all classes, races, feminist, conservatives, political or not, and me - scoring. We knew it was a good place for meeting other lesbians.
Mad love 4 the Lesbian Project Podcast but correction: Lesbians are not overrepresented in sport b/c of high testosterone, Kathleen. Having written about women in sports since 1980, I can assure you it's cultural. Historically, straight women have avoided "masculine" sports & "too big" muscles due to male censure. Lesbians, less in need of male approval, have been and still are freer in this way.
Now that sports have become more acceptable for girls and women, more straight women and millions of girls play without controversy.
So now there's a smaller percentage of lesbians than, say in the days of the All-American Girls Pro Baseball League (1940s), which required young women to travel around the country (and only accepted unmarried players), and even in the days of the first women's pro basketball league: WBL, 1979-82, which I played in.
In both of those leagues, BTW, they sent players to charm school to appeal to sponsors, highlight or create a feminine appearance, and disguise the fact that many of us were gay. (I boycotted and got traded.)
Paradoxically, it might seem like there are even more lesbians now - but only because many WNBA players and more college softball players, rugby players are out. It still takes a certain comfort with "gender nonconformity" to play the most aggressive sports, like those three, but it's not about testosterone, it's about willingness to buck social conventions.
Hope you don't mind my going on a bit: Also, I think you said something about lesbians do not join sports teams looking for other women. Actually, we do. In the States at least, recreational softball and other sports have notoriously provided healthy, athletic, and social experiences for lesbians, where we can expect to discover and socialize with lesbians (and straight women who feel comfortable with lots of lesbians) in a non-bar atmosphere.
You remind me of my matchmaker friend who, in the late ‘70s, in an effort to connect me with a girlfriend, invited me to come to the all-lesbian North Fork-South Fork softball games. It was soon discovered that I was terrible at softball, but nonetheless, it was definitely an opening into a whole new world. In the end, better suited to my limited talents, was the “sport” of playing poker. One night, a girl stayed over—she never left, and we celebrate our 45th anniversary of that night tomorrow.
Great story! Happy anniversary! 🤸🏿♂️🎉🍾 Met my wife rowing 🚣 & we celebrated 34 years this summer. 😀
Love it!
“Historically, straight women have avoided "masculine" sports & "too big" muscles due to male censure.” 💯💯💯 and Title IX made such a big difference in how women saw and felt about their bodies. I was a young woman pre-title IX, just coming out, so I remember that pressure very well. I marvel now at how well-toned so many young women are, whether straight or lesbian, and proud of it—and of course am dismayed at the ongoing threat to all that progress for women.
Heck yes re: Title IX and threats to it. BTW I write about the need for all-female sports 🏀 - and other feminist & aging-related issues, including at least one lesbian love story - in Stronger Women here on Substack.
Glad comments are still part of the pod. I love them 🤗 They make me part of a bigger community.
Re coming out, this may be different for everyone. I have a good friend in her '70s who in some quiet way tells everyone she is lesbian whereas I have never felt the need to do that.
The current assault by trans ideology on lesbian identity and freedom has led me to come out more often, however.
Julie and Kathleen! We just had the Lesbian Action Group conference here in Australia, and it was spectacular! Thanks for your support and encouragement, it means the world! I flew down from Sydney for the conference and gave a talk about my experiences growing up with triple lesbophobia (religious; porn culture; gender identity ideology). There were about ten of us young ones and then 70 retirement age women… And it was so special to meet older sisters and learn from them! It is so isolating being a sex-realist lesbian so a lot of us under 30s were crying because we were so moved to meet our sisters. 👯♀️
Anyway wanted to say thanks for your little message to the conference goers, everyone was thrilled and honoured to see it!
Aurore, thanks for the report on the conference! I was wondering how it went. The numbers are impressive. More younger women will come to the movement. LAG is doing all the right things.
I have mobility issues (both knees needing redemption) and had surgery recently so could not contemplate attending. More surgery planned soon. It will be great to walk safely again!
I read that the NSW Labor government is likely to pass the proposed gender self ID legislation before Christmas. They will achieve this after a compromise with the Churches by abandoning protections for gay teachers in private schools. I wrote to the Melbourne 'Age' about the wider impacts of the gender self ID legislation but the letter was not published.
Stay well and strong.
If you haven't commented on it before, would you say what you thought of the 2022 film Blue Jean? It presents itself as social realism. I'm watching it on Kanopy (a library based steaming service), and to me it seems a plausible depiction of the era. But I'm not from the time and place, so I'm not really sure. I'd be interested. Thanks.
I love these podcasts. Thank you both. The obsession with sports on the news every night etc really annoys me. However, in the capital city of Aotearoa (NZ) our lesbian softball teams - the Amazons - which started in mid/late 70s, was the best place for mixing lesbians together. There were members who were mothers who brought their kids along to the game, pissheads, vegans, all classes, races, feminist, conservatives, political or not, and me - scoring. We knew it was a good place for meeting other lesbians.
you dont know how much you both make me laugh 🥲